Religion and the Afterlife in Amber

OOC background to Home from the Hill

So I am stuck now. Worship, afterlife, divinities are not subjects I have ever closely considered for Havelock before. He has experience that I have referred to of three faiths; The Unicorn Church of both his own family and the Sterlings; Obeah and shamanism both of Lucy and many shadow horse nomads; and his own experiences of Norse religion.

He has however been around several hundred years and been taught by both Brand and Fiona, obviously the divine is an important aspect of realities’ magical systems. He would also have been strongly influenced by his father’s views on religion.

I would be very surprised if Bleys and Fiona had not given Havelock a wider appreciation for the breadth of religious experience. Bleys has often served as Oberon’s ambassador to the Far Realms, which include Olympus, Aaru, Vaikuntha (the Egyptian and Hindu equivalents), Asgard, Heaven and Hell. Actually Bleys has never been to the latter two but he has been to the others and would be perfectly willing to educate his son regarding them – that Havelock is so knowledgeable about Norse mythology indicates that Bleys has not stinted his education in that regard.

Fiona is one of the more spiritual members of the family, which frankly is a little unusual, but her spirituality has many facets, so if you ask her about the afterlife she will give you different answers depending on her current mood. Bleys is more spiritual than most of his brothers but that’s not saying much. He thinks there might be something after death but wouldn’t hazard a guess as to what. “I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it – dragged kicking and screaming.”

Fiona and Bleys can both tell Havelock all he needs to know about Godhood and the power of Numinosity – which they regard as a both a potentially vast source of power and a monumental trap. If you want to know what a society of gods looks like, please read Lord of Light.

I strongly recommend you read the conversation between Sorashi and Deirdre at the end of Monkey Business. It gives a very good idea of what things were like before Fiona was born – the family was very materialistic and had no vocabulary to even phrase questions regarding life after death. Most members of the family still think that way – they compare life to a length of string, death comes at the end of the string – after that, there’s no string.

Regarding the Church of the Unicorn: Constance is forever gushing about the Unicorn but Julian is distinctly lukewarm on the subject, regarding religion as the opiate of the masses. Most members of the family are aware that Caine is the most devoted worshipper of the Unicorn, but even he is only a devout layman – as far as Havelock is aware, none of his relatives have ever considered the priesthood as a career – even in Shadow. Read Corwin’s responses to seeing the Unicorn – a sort of inarticulate awe in her presence, and then he literally doesn’t think of her again until next time. Gerard and Corwin both see her when recovering Caine’s body, and they never talk about the incident after. This is entirely typical.

With the arrogance of long age or seeming immortality I don’t think until this moment he has truly weighed up the afterlife prospects, maybe he thought those of the Blood different to shadow dwellers.

The ‘arrogance of long age or seeming immortality’ applies to the entire family. We mere mortals tend not to think much about death in youth, a sense of mortality tends to grow on us with our grey hairs. The immortal Amberites, to a first approximation, simply cannot conceive of a World in which they are individually dead, and family deaths are so rare that the impact is felt only very infrequently. Amber Royals don’t die, so don’t have to consider continuity post-death. It’s as simple as that, for most of them.

I think he believed in his limited consideration that dead Amberites became spirits in some way downloaded onto the Pattern, hence Pattern ghosts, but I don’t know if that is actually a thing in your Amber and who would have first postulated it to him if so.

I have absolutely no plans to introduce Pattern Ghosts in Home from the Hill. Whether or not the Pattern keeps a record of everyone who has walked it must remain moot until evidence becomes available. But I should point out that Oberon redrew the Pattern so it’s more than likely previous ‘recordings’ were lost at that time, if they ever existed. Fiona and Bleys would not have even hinted at the possibility – if Havelock ever suggested it, Bleys would have made some sarcastic comment about him avoiding whatever designer drug had given him the notion.

I should also point out that no one has ever reported seeing ghosts in, on or near the Pattern – and no one has ever reported seeing a ghost of a member of the family – aside from TnN, of course, but that’s a special case, and most members of the family write off anything seen in TnN as of no more significance than a dream. Corwin seems to attach the most importance to TnN, but even he says he only went up there as a ruse to gain time to heal from his stabbing.

This current situation I perceive as a turning point, almost a Damascene revelation.

YES! I love it when a plan comes together. :-)

You have perfectly captured my intent with this. I had originally intended for this to happen last session, but in some ways I rather like that it’s come out PBEM as the medium is excellent at thoughtful intensity. :-)

Suddenly he wants and needs to reflect on his long life experience of the multiverse’s religions and there are big, gaping holes in what I have defined he knows, but they are things he will have experienced having travelled through shadow a lot. They are experiences that will reflect your definition of game reality, so I need a lot of help here.

If I had made it up for him I would not have placed any Amberite soul in Hell so I cannot rely at all on my own imagination or what I know.

Osric (and Finndo, though Havelock does not know that yet, though he probably suspects) are in Hell for one single reason, which was cited by Osric – they died on the battlefield, fighting against the Neverborn – ie the denizens of Hell. OOC do not expect to find any other members of the family there – OTOH Havelock cannot know this and it may be perfectly right for him to worry that all the family are bound for Hell upon their deaths. I leave his confusion regarding this up to you – but IMO it’s A-OK for him to be confused.

As to the family view of the Unicorn I know the structure from Doom That Came but that may be completely different from Home From the Hill. Havelock should at least know the views of the redheads and probably their views on their siblings beliefs.

I had intended to bring the issue of life after death – is there one and what does it look like – into play in Brave New Worlds, which was the continuation of TDtCtA. Because I was unable to play with the issue due to the death of that game is one of the reasons I’m making it an issue in HftH. However do not assume any other connection – frex the Unicorn in TDtCtA was a dualistic deity with a very dark side indeed, whereas the Unicorn in HftH is the more traditional version.

The family view of the state religion is primarily that of the Sunday Christian – they go to church on the Sabbath and rarely even think of religion outside of church.

If I am going to answer Sigrid’s question – and I want to answer as this is deep character forming and defining stuff – I need to know much of these things from you.

OK, Bleys and Fiona will have educated Havelock on the beings that inhabit Olympus, Aaru, Vaikuntha, Asgard, Heaven and Hell – their principal power is Numinosity, the power drawn from worship – it can be awesome on its own turf. Any Amberite can become a god but the redheads do not recommend it because it is also a trap.

Heaven and Hell are particularly dangerous places due to the dogmas of their inhabitants, which is why Bleys has never been to either. Oberon maintained diplomatic relations with the other 4 and most other Far Realms but not with H & H.

I should point out that Asgardians believe their afterlife includes Hell – or Hel, as it’s spelt in Norse. Olympians also believe in Hell, calling it Tartarus, but the Egyptians kind of have their own en-suite version.

I have thought of one immediate question, what does the Church of the Unicorn teach about the afterlife? Where do the common people believe they go? Presumably with large enough nuministic gravity they may actually do so?

Possibly thanks to the Royals’ materialistic views, the Church of the Unicorn is a little light on the afterlife thing – essentially it preaches that ‘good’ people go to join the Unicorn in sweetness and light amidst Elysian fields or similar, while ‘bad’ people just cease to be. But frankly, unlike most other religions, it doesn’t go into a lot of detail.